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Complaint: Rocket Watermark on Screenshots
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Post by
Chuffy
I have just noticed that you've started putting a watermark of the Wowhead rocket symbol in the bottom right of the user submitted images.
Wowhead content is created primarily by the users, who contribute their time freely, and I take issue with the company stamping some sort of seal of ownership over something they did not create.
I do not believe content donated by the users for the good of all players should be branded in such a way. At the time the images were submitted, users were not informed that they were relinquishing any rights nor giving ownership of the images to Wowhead.
Although I have submitted only a few images over the years, I will not continue to do so if the watermark branding policy remains in place.
You have your advertising revenue, that should be enough. If you start trying to brand protect everything on this site, you'll quickly turn off the people who contributed their free time to make the site as good and as useful as it is today.
Post by
perculia
As this is new for us, we are open to hearing feedback. That said, the watermark was not meant to be obtrusive and several versions and layouts were considered and discarded that were deemed to be too obtrusive.
We have had reports that people have been passing off user-submitted screenshots as their own, which isn't fair to our own users that took the pictures. It became more apparent with a new PTR and we wanted to take precautions to ensure there would be some sort of credit/recognition for our users. For example, it would be poor behavior to copy/paste someone's detailed comment on an achievement into a guide without giving the original writer credit.
That was the intended spirit of things. The last thing we want to do is make our own contributors feel alienated so we'll be listening to feedback for sure.
Edit: a
huge PTR patch
hit around the time watermarks went through yesterday--I'd have posted something sooner, but was swamped dealing with items and models for several hours.(##RESPBREAK##)2##DELIM##perculia##DELIM##
Post by
Chuffy
Thanks for the swift reply.
I am unsatisfied with your explanation.
If your intent was to protect user-submitted images against misuse and false attribution, you should watermarked them with the creators name as well. Instead they have
just
been watermarked with the brand logo. (Personally, I don't want to see either on the pictures I've submitted)
Contributors do not have the freedom to edit their pictures as they do with their comments. It is an abuse of their work, given freely, to plaster your branding over it.
I would ask that you cancel this branding excercise now. It's not for the contributors benefit and it's certainly not for the visitors benefit. It's a cynical corporate branding scheme, plain and simple.
Post by
Izichial
I wouldn't go as far as to call it a "cynical corporate branding scheme" but I fail to see why this needs to go on user submitted pictures unless another site
systematically
passes them off as their own work in the manner you describe.
Pictures that you take yourself for the news is another matter but please keep the watermarks off user submitted images.
Post by
Nulgar
I agree that this feels somewhat weird.
We have had reports that people have been passing off user-submitted screenshots as their own, which isn't fair to our own users that took the pictures.In what way, that users took a submitted screenshot and uploaded it to similar entries in the DB? That could've been prevented with a simple script that checks submissions against the screenshots already on your server, first by total file size, then hash, then total contents, if all three are the same, discard the screenshot. This catches screenshots that were downloaded and resubmitted 1:1.
If the plagiarist alters the screenshot, the watermark wouldn't help much, it could be blurred or simply cropped, so that the image would seem legit to the revisor.
Post by
Nooska
At this point, I would like to point out that the branding can be seen as a mark of copyright, which wowhead does not gain upon upload, as copyright belongs to the producer of a graphical representation (in this case the user taking the screenshot, even though the elements in the screenshot are copyrighted to Blizzad). I've been involved in a similar case of branding, and the result was that it was not in compliance with danish copyright laws provisions about naming the copyright holder. (It is okay to not specifically name the submitter on the picture, but not okay to brand or put a logo that indicates someone else as the submitter).
The Berne conventions on copyright provide that all signatory states must comply with provisions in other countries of origin.
Country of origin does become more murky here, as all the screenshots are uploaded to wowhead, however, the specifics of the naming of the copyright holder is, I believe, also included in US copyright law (haven't checked as this is the first I've seen of the problem - haven't looked at any screenshots lately), and the legal considerations in regards to stamping versus the weight of the attempted prevented issue seems to indicate that teh stamping would be in violation of said naming clauses.
Post by
Nooska
Follow up.
Having had a gander at the screenshots I've uploaded (and others on the same pages) I can see no watermark with my naked eye - which means that the stated reason for placing it there (if indeed it is there) - to ward off plagiarism - won't be achieved, as the watermark is not visible enough so as to be discernible, and therefore lost in almost any retrieval and storage of said screenshots where there is the minutest of data loss / compression.
Post by
asakawa
My understanding is that it's not about someone taking a user-submitted image from Wowhead and uploading it back to Wowhead on another or the same page. It's about the work of Wowhead contributors being taken and used elsewhere on the internet; on blogs, guides, forums and other information sites. The hard work and enthusiasm of our community being preyed on.
Post by
baradiel
This Rocket Watermark is okay for me, but it should be smaller because i like my screenshots to be clean as possible for the user so they can see what they are looking for.
I understand that you guys are giving us credit but it's the same thing if you put it smaller.
Post by
rahael
this is 100% my own conjecture, but recently another major fan site had a contest that rewarded participants for adding content to their db, and i'm guessing that some people just came to wowhead and copied content over instead of generating their own.
the wowhead staff has worked really hard to nurture the community here and come up with ways to encourage good content, so i can understand why they want to prevent this type of abuse in the long-term. i'd personally like to see a watermark that includes the name of the uploader, but i have no idea if that's possible to dynamically generate through the upload process.
Post by
Sas148
This Rocket Watermark is okay for me, but it should be smaller because i like my screenshots to be clean as possible for the user so they can see what they are looking for.
I understand that you guys are giving us credit but it's the same thing if you put it smaller.
As has been mentioned, it's already not entirely hard to crop out. It's really hard to balance size with practicality. Any bigger and it gets rather "in-your-face," smaller and it becomes easier to crop the photo without losing any of the content.
Post by
Nooska
Could someone link me to a screenshot with the stamp on? (As said in my last post I can't see it)
Post by
Izichial
Here's one of mine:
http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/85879.jpg
Bottom right corner.
It's about the work of Wowhead contributors being taken and used elsewhere on the internet; on blogs, guides, forums and other information sites. The hard work and enthusiasm of our community being preyed on.
I repeat my earlier question, is this being done
systematically
in a way that suggests the pictures taken from here is the work of those authors? If it's not, then watermarking every image on the site is a very heavy-handed response.
If this is about MMO-C's wowdb, I don't really see any point of skirting the fact. I'm also curious about Nooska's earlier point on the legality of the move.
Post by
Sas148
The watermark is intended to be a way to ensure those who take the screenshot from "our" -- as in our community -- site will at least be acknowledging, even if indirectly, that the Wowhead community is the entity responsible for the screenshot.
I repeat my earlier question, is this being done systematically in a way that suggests the pictures taken from here is the work of those authors?
The screenshot is the same transparent Wowhead rocket for all screenshots, old and new, at the bottom right-hand corner. It does not identify the individual account name of who submitted it.(##RESPBREAK##)12##DELIM##Sas148##DELIM##
Post by
CalaelenDT
I repeat my earlier question, is this being done systematically in a way that suggests the pictures taken from here is the work of those authors?
The screenshot is the same transparent Wowhead rocket for all screenshots, old and new, at the bottom right-hand corner. It does not identify the individual account name of who submitted it.
He's asking if the watermarking of screenshots is being done because other websites/people are systematically stealing "our" images and pretending they are theirs.
Post by
Izichial
The screenshot is the same transparent Wowhead rocket for all screenshots, old and new, at the bottom right-hand corner. It does not identify the individual account name of who submitted it.
He's asking if the watermarking of screenshots is being done because other websites/people are systematically stealing "our" images and pretending they are theirs.
Yeah, this.
Post by
Sas148
We know that on some occasions screenshots have been taken from Wowhead and used on popular non-Wowhead guides and other third party sites (reddit and such) and often times the images have been claimed as their own. These occurrences were the primary reason for the change. There is nothing to say they can't use the screenshots in their various sites, it's just that our community deserves credit for the effort our users collectively contribute.
Post by
Chuffy
We know that on some occasions screenshots have been taken from Wowhead and used on popular non-Wowhead guides and other third party sites (reddit and such) and often times the images have been claimed as their own. These occurrences were the primary reason for the change. There is nothing to say they can't use the screenshots in their various sites, it's just that our community deserves credit for the effort our users collectively contribute.
I sincerely doubt it was the primary reason, it may be a reason but it's also Brand Protection. Wowhead requires advertising revenue to run, pay the paid staff and generate income for the owners. If Wowhead content is available anywhere, in theory the incentive to visit Wowhead is reduced and therefore the potential ad revenue is reduced.
Everyone from sellers on eBay to Stock Photography sites and Artists on DeviantArt tend to place a brand, url or whatever
showing that the picture belongs to them
.
The difference here is,
the pictures DO NOT belong to Wowhead
*
. No such agreement was entered into when the pictures were submitted. The creator didn't relinquish any rights when submitting them. If that were the case you'd need a pretty extensive and robust legal disclaimer for all content uploaded to the site.
*In anticipation of a tangential counter argument suggesting the pictures belong to Blizzard, they do not. Just as a picture taken with a Nikon Camera of a Kelloggs Cornflake box doesn't belong to Nikon nor to Kelloggs.
My pictures do not belong to Wowhead. Adding corporate branding is not for my benefit. Also I object vandalising my work by tagging it with your watermark.
I note that my pictures
here
&
here
have already been tagged.
Fortunately, at the time of writing, the picture is created
here
(more than just a screenshot) has not yet been defaced.
This represents about an hour or so of work recreating a magazine cover matching the theme for illustrative and Roleplay purposes. No less effort has been put in by other contributors screenshotting rare and difficult to find mobs and items.
I respectfully request you remove all your watermarks from my images. They do not belong to ZAM Network LLC. If you fail to do so, you can continue to use the images that I have submitted since I uploaded them for the benefit of the players, however I will submit no further picture contributions to the site if the Watermarking scheme remains.
Not your work, not your right to brand it as such!
Post by
Adamsm
So then you'd be fine if someone comes here, takes your pictures, post them on a blog and says they are theirs?
Post by
Sas148
The difference here is,
the pictures DO NOT belong to Wowhead
*
. No such agreement was entered into when the pictures were submitted. The creator didn't relinquish any rights when submitting them. If that were the case you'd need a pretty extensive and robust legal disclaimer for all content uploaded to the site.
Just to be clear, in the
Terms of Service
link at the bottom of this website, it does indeed state the following:
6. User Contributions
All user contributions including but not limited to comments, forum posts and screenshots become property of WOWHEAD.com and may be used as they see fit.
I'm not quoting that just to insult you or anything of that nature, I just wanted to make sure you understand that it is listed in our ToS.
Regardless, we are asking for feedback and your opinion is appreciated. We welcome further feedback, in favor or against, by those who wish to be heard.(##RESPBREAK##)12##DELIM##Sas148##DELIM##
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