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10.2.7
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PvE Survival
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Post by
45647
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Post by
SheppardBook
Taken from
http://elitistjerks.com/f74/t130605-mop_survival_hunter_guide/
(even though Cata is still referenced in the language, thread says MoP, so looks to be updated)
agi>hit>expertise>crit>haste>mastery
Post by
138583
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Post by
Nooska
Its mastery> haste for both BM and SV - the sims favor haste way too much because of how they work and valuate the stats - even SimC with variable fight length will favor haste because of adding 1 extra shot here and switching 1 shot there, but changing values manually over different fight lengths, mastery will consistently beat out haste for SV and BM.
MM I am not too sure about (tbh I don't keep up a whole lot with it - if you like reading there is a thesis paper (in length ;-)) over on EJ about MM (whitefyst has a good grasp of it and has good math behind it, I just have a hard time reading it)
Also, I'd say hit=exp (to cap) > Agi > Crit > Mastery >> Haste (for both BM and SV) - getting hit and exp from reforges andnative gear is of course better as you cannot reforge to agi, so you gain a higher amount of agi from reforging the lower haste, master and crit to hit and exp.
For BM it is more crucial than for SV because the pet also misses/gets dodged when you are uncapped.
Post by
138583
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Nooska
However, I disagree with that gemming strategy, as agi isn't THAT far ahead of secondaries (especially hit and exp, and to a slightly lower degree, crit), so gemming hybrids will more often be a bigger benefit due to the doubled budget for secondaries (and for socket boni consisting of secondary stats). I have more on that in my guides (and am in a bit of a rush) so I won't write it up here (link in my sig).
Post by
138583
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Post by
Wombat62
However, I disagree with that gemming strategy, as agi isn't THAT far ahead of secondaries (especially hit and exp, and to a slightly lower degree, crit), so gemming hybrids will more often be a bigger benefit due to the doubled budget for secondaries (and for socket boni consisting of secondary stats). I have more on that in my guides (and am in a bit of a rush) so I won't write it up here (link in my sig).
AGI is about twice as good as exp/hit before cap and about three times as good as any of your secondary stats (~2.75 as good as your best stat). Even with the doubled budget from secondary stats its not optimal (or very close) to socket after socket bonus thats non AGI.
Typical examples of gemming:
80AGI vs 220 crit AGI wins, slightly
80 AGI vs 160 hit and 60 mastery, if you are reforging out of hit AGI wins, if you are reforging towards hit its close
no brainer, Purple wins.
With the secondary stats double budget hybrids pure agi gemming isnt that far ahead but its still ahead.
with the gear you used as example the pure agi will win in the first two as you said and the hubrid in the third .
In Nooska's guide he does say that you need a socket bonus of +30 agi or +80 mast/crit to make the hybrid better - your two examples have a +60 bonus
Post by
Nooska
Also, please note that when I talk of hybrids its agi/crit, agi/mast for yellow and agi/hit for blue.
Further, I haven't seen anyone list exact values (or AEP) for agi and secondary stats as such, and I have not seen any values to back up that agi is twice as good as hit/exp or even further down the road three times as good as secondaries? please provide some back up - I see agi being less than twice as good as hit/exp (below the cap! - if your values come from near the cap it just isn't a real valuation, as a lot of the points used to value will likely be worth 0), and other secondaris are roughly 2.5 points per agi (crit and mastery) - and with gemming that also makes them worth almost the same as agi because of the double stat budget.
Though even going by your "three times as good as any of your secondary stats", 80 secondary stat bonus (crit or mastery) + 160 from the hybrid gem = 240 secondary stat vs 80 agi, and with agi 3 times as good as the secondary (for aguments sake) 240 secondary stat = 80 agi (and more secondary stats).
An agility bonus of 30 is equal to 90 secondary stats, which is more than the previous 80, so a clear gain if agi = 3 points of crit/mast (which, again, is not my contention here, I'm just showing the math behind my position with your values)
Also, please note that using an agi/hit gem is a pure gain if you are under the hit cap - regardless of the socket bonus size as hit (and exp) is about 1.5 points per agi (under the cap) - which also means that gemming straight hit is better than the hybrid if you need the full hit value. (I will not recommend that though - even though I have done it myself).
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